Comments on: Editorial Opinion: Town Square Business Closures Sad But Not Troubling

By: Deb

Deb — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:47:46 +0000

Another East Rockville-er here who would just about give her right arm for a hardware store like ACE or Strosniders. Gaithersburg is getting ALL the local tax dollars from people looking for paint, tools, and other hardware needs. For those who haven’t noticed, though, the CVS is starting to pick up some of the slack when it comes to housewares and simple hardware, not to mention socks and underwear. We did the “kids eat free” Tuesday once and ended up running up enough of a bill for adult food that we decided if we do it again, Mom and Dad will eat first at home and share an appetizer. (Another family here who can’t/won’t pay for Gifford’s either. ) We can’t afford to blow $30 barring refreshments taking the family to the movies, even though we can walk to the theater (that is MATINEE, prices!). I do wish there were more lower-cost family-oriented activities available. I hope we can continue to park free for the library; otherwise, once the weather gets too cold for biking, our weekly visits are likely to be fewer and further between, and yes, parking should be free after 5 or 6, not 7PM. That said, I suspect a LOT of people regardless of socio-economic means aren’t aware of some of the fabulous offerings at places like VisArts and even programs at the library for kids. Programs for kids in Town Square are fun too, and not ridiculously late either. The grown-up concerts and movies would be nice if we had spare change for a sitter (ATM not an option). I enjoy biking to the Town Center to get things done when I can, and I’m also looking forward to a closer-to-home grocery store option to save even more gas.

By: Mike Kohut

Mike Kohut — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:09:43 +0000

I will not pay to park in the town square either. I drive there after 7:00 and on the weekends. I try to walk as often as I can. I live close to the Town Square and know the rules but if I did not I would probably just skip it and not try to figure out what it costs to park where. I love the square for it’s events and restaurants as well as the library and VisArts. VisArts has some really cool events by the way. It is a nice place to just sit and people watch as well. I often walk up with my dog and meet lots of people. It reminds me of some of the squares I see in Europe. I hope it continues to be a huge success. I do not think that GreyStone grill closing is any indication of the square. I went there once and was not impressed. I see we are getting a Buffalo Wild wings in that spot. I wish it was a local restaurant rather then a chain but I am happy to see a sports bar. Go CAPS! Go Ravens!

By: Max Braun

Max Braun — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 04:12:35 +0000

I refuse to pay to park in the downtown parking garages. Face it the new downtown is not like Old Town Alexandria or even Bethesda.No wonder the businesses are closing. Why would anyone pay for parking when so many areas offer more shopping and free parking.

By: John Cooper-Martin

John Cooper-Martin — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:11:43 +0000

I keep advocating for free parking ALL the time. While the city wants to make money from parking, I think the City is sabotaging the “Buy Rockville” campaign, which, translated, really means to buy in the Town Center or the Town Square. The way parking is set up: you guess how long you will park; you can easily forget to go back, if you stay longer than you thought; and the outrageous fines for overdue parking make people want to stay away from the Town Square rather than “Buy Rockville.”

By: Tom

Tom — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 18:58:10 +0000

I just want to second (third, fourth?) the parking comments. Parking needs to be free on weekends and evenings. It’s great for those who walk, but those of us who drive (I’m one of the “elitist” Rockville residents) might just as soon run up to RIO or the pike if we have to pay for parking just to have dinner/shopping. Just my $.02.

By: Trapper Martin

Trapper Martin — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:33:06 +0000

I love that there is so much passion about spoken here about the new town square. I personally love the area and see that in the future with some tweaking it will be a great center. Every shopping center goes through its own set of problems and this one is no different. I would expect to see more businesses close and others open in the coming year since as several of you have mentioned the right mix just isn’t there yet. I think that more and more “practical” businesses will begin to appear to fill the need not only of those in west rockville but the east as well. I am concerned about the city’s plans for parking for this structure though. Each time they decide to change the hours or provide free resident parking etc it just pains me that no one has made the obvious point that the city not only needs to focus on what it would potentially cost them in lost parking fees, but what it is costing them in lost tax revenues. I am hearing stories all the time of people that refuse to go to the Town Square because they have to pay for parking and instead go to the Rio. Parking should be free after 5 or 6 each evening. Where did 7 ever come from? Charge for parking and take advantage of the business crowd during business and court hours because there is a true parking need for those that are most likely not spending any money in the town square businesses but after business hours parking should be free. Keep up the lively debate.

By: Eric Raynor

Eric Raynor — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:55:29 +0000

I too am an East Rockville resident and I agree largely with the comments made by anonymous (# 12′s) posting. The new town center is lovely, and I personally patronize a few of the places there, but it IS oriented mostly to high-income folks, and most East Rockville folks are not high-income earners, so there is a feeling on the east side of town that the new town center does not meet our basic needs. This has come up in past East Rockville Civic Association (ERCA) meetings, and I recall one lively discussion at an ERCA meeting last fall that ended with everyone chanting we need {places to buy} “shoes, screws, and underwear” – that is where that “mantra” was born. I volunteered to go talk to the mayor and council about that topic at open forum night – - and I unknowingly picked a night where the focus was on west end concerns about a pending affordable housing project, so I think ERCA’s message got lost in the crowd.We do lack some basic retailing (and not just in town center) – if you need to go to a hardware store, or a garden center, you need to leave the city limits to do so, and it just ridiculous that a city of approximately 50,000 people has no hardware store. The revitalized downtown Silver Spring got a new Strosnider’s hardware store and a bookstore and a shoe store in their mix, so it can be done. Urban neighborhoods in DC like Tenleytown and Logan Circle have seen the recent opening of small hardware stores. So I agree with Anonymous’s comments that the new town center is not meeting everyone’s needs. Said another way – we don’t all need to buy sushi, but we do all need to buy shoes and light bulbs. And it would be great if people could walk to stores that sell such things, rather than get in their cars and drive out of town to shop. I’ve often quipped that the reason Rockville Pike traffic is so bad on Saturdays is because everyone is driving hither and yon to buy their “shoes, screws, and underwear”. One neighbor of mine (who does a lot of sewing) lamented to me recently that you can’t buy thread in Rockville, and she must drive up to Hancock Fabric in Gaithersburg or down to G Street Fabrics in North Bethesda to find a selection. If we want to reduce traffic and draw more people to town center, then we need to put some practical things there that people need. We do need a better mix of shopping options.

By: Bill Burchett

Bill Burchett — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 03:46:46 +0000

Anonymous – Is there a gathering place/town square anywhere that meets the needs of all social classes? The City of Rockville does not select the business’s that are located in Town Center. This is a process for the free market. Local and national interests have known about the Town Center development for years and business’s have had ample time to explore Town Center as a viable place in which to do business.You want affordable dining in Town Center: Five Guys, Lebanese Taverna and Noodles and Company are certainly all very affordable. How about a pizza at Primo? Why have another Apollo type restaurant when the original is 1.5 blocks away. If people were spilling out the door every night at Apollo someone would open another one. That is the way business works. New developments such as Town Center are usually expensive and sometimes cost prohibitive for new local ventures. Rents are higher than they are for your neighborhood strip mall. It is a gathering place. Bobby’s Crabcakes is one of the few exceptions to the rule in Town Center. It is locally owned and sure it’s more expensive those mentioned above but it’s one of the best crabcakes you will get anywhere. As for a hardware store, I’d love one too. I did shop at Macks when it was around. But, like many others, I went to Home Depot for major purchases. It’s hard for the “little guy” to compete. It’s nearly impossible to sell nuts and bolts and odds and ends and sell enough of them to cover the rent. You either have to sell some big ticket items or make a very high margin on the smaller items you do sell and either way you aren’t going to be price competitive. Plenty of earlier posts have made the good argument that the store mix is ever changing. In a free market, money talks and if a business isn’t making money, it will relocate or close and someone else will hopefully take it’s place. The City and the leasing company certainly should (and I’m sure they do) work to help the local business’s succeed. They should encourage diversity among retailers without unfairly helping one type of business over another. But, as a taxpayer, I’m not interested in subsidizing a hardware store, dollar store or any other type of business that isn’t able to compete on a level (and certainly high) playing field. As of yet, we don’t have State run stores – just banks and car companies.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:23:33 +0000

hey Anonymous comment 12:First, I would LOVE a hardware store. We need one. If I want a bolt or part (and any type of service) I have to go to Strossneider’s. I share your opinion of the mix of stores at RTS. But its still in its first incarnation, and the market needs to signal what it demands for things to happen. It takes time.Now, somebody needs to address your “pandering to the west-end types” and “playspace for the rich” comment. I love our new town square, but like you, hate the restaurant choices. I live in a single-income home, a modest place to be sure, and provide for a wife and child. We dine there sometimes, but only with coupons or sometimes at happy hour. We have discovered very quickly where the good deals are. We await the grocery store more than anything else….I dislike Giant food with a passion that I cannot describe. East Rockville has one great place to eat that I know of, Jonathan’s, but I just dont go there anymore because its a car trip and out of my usual way. Let the market work some, it will take some time, this economy isn’t the best right now.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:13:18 +0000

I think the town square has a poor mix of retail/restaurants, and I think it does not meet the needs of all the social classesi n Rockville. .There are way too many restaurants, and not enough basic shopping. My family lives in East Rockville, and we can easily walk to the town square from our house, and we often do walk there to use the library or to go to CVS for things. But we rarely go to the other stores or restaurants; they are just too pricey and well, elitist. We can’t afford $5 ice cream cones for our kids at Gifford’s. We NEVER went to Greystone – out of our budget. As for the tanning salon – gimme a break! None of my neighbors ever went there! Like many east-rockvillians, we still eat at the Apollo; good food at a price we can afford and all our neighbors eat there too. And we go to California Tortilla or Guiseppe’s for the movie deal meal. But the rest of it is all so elitist and pandering to the west-end types. As homeowners, we’d like a hardware store and a dollar store we could walk to, but that just doesn’t seem to fit the hifalutin “image” the west-end folks want for “their” town square. I call it “their” town square becase those of us on the east side of town find most of the shops to be overpriced and full of mostly useless stuff we’ll never need or be able to buy. Personally, my wife and I are glad to see some of the high-end shops go, and we really hope more practical stores can replace them. How about a little urban style ACE hardware store instead of another overpriced restaurant? That would be a place we would flock to every Saturday! give us a real town square that meets everyone’s needs, not just a playspace for the rich.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:23:15 +0000

I love the square and my choice of restaurants, but worked out pretty quickly which ones are my favorites for which things. They have a captive audience with my wife and I, since we are a few blocks away and just walk. I can’t recall which made more of an impression on me about the Graystone Grill…the mediocrity of the food (can someone say SALT) or the high cost. And Moe’s Southwest? I ate there ONCE. It was like they tried to spice up grade G meat and make it taste good. It was like some cheap knockoff of California Tortilla. I didnt even want to go back to Moe’s, and I never got the chance since they ended up closing up.Dave Ramsey quotes Rabbi Daniel Lapin as saying ‘Profits are the applause your customers give you.’ And no more is this obvious than at a restaurant.And my dermatologist clapped and said hooray when I told him the local tanning place closed up. Those lucky enough to not get some sort of skin cancer end up wrinkly. Wrinkly all over. Ew.

By: anonymous

anonymous — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 21:39:00 +0000

One can certainly argue that the owner (referred to above as “the leasing company”), the merchants and the City all have motives not to be forthcoming with accurate information about the relative financial success or failure of Town Square. Personally, I am skeptical of this argument, but one can argue this.What is irrefutable is that presently there are NEW businesses that are willing to lay down investment capital and locate in Town Square: recently a furniture store, at least one new restaurant coming, another business about to be announced, and the ever tantalizing grocery store. All of them are aware of the ground rules: hourly parking charges – soon to be expanded to evenings and weekends. Only true conspiratory-theorists would argue that these folks are coming into Town Square to lose money. To a lay person, the interest of new businesses to locate in Town Square should be as airtight evidence as can be obtained of its success (and that, in a difficult economy).

By: John Cooper-Martin

John Cooper-Martin — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:34:40 +0000

I don’t think it would be in the leasing company’s best interest to say that things are going badly, for many reasons. So, I take their public statement that they are happy, overall, with how things are going “with a grain of salt.” When some merchants, in Town Square, were interviewed recently, several cited some pretty serious problems they were having, such as difficulty drawing customers into the Town Square and competing with Rockville Pike’s businesses. I give more credibility to their statements than the leasing company’s. I believe one merchant said something like many potential customers don’t seem to know what’s behind the big buildings (in the Town Square). I rely more on what the merchants are saying than on what the leasing company is saying. I don’t think the City or the leasing company should be complacent; there is a lot of taxpayer money and other important factors involved with the Town Square. I think ongoing evaluations and warranted improvements should be made rather than the City and the leasing company just acting like everything is fine when improvements need to be made. There are a lot of good ideas, right here, in these comments. I hope the City and the leasing company read and act on them. Additionally, it would be even better for the City to have a transparent process, regarding ongoing evaluations of the Town Square.

By: Herb

Herb — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:51:47 +0000

In reply to King Farmer, it’s true that there isn’t a designated bike route, but in the meantime, you can bike down Watkins Pond, then catch the Millenium Trail east to a cut through onto Yale, then ride the less travelled neighborhood streets. it’d be nice to have a path through the apartments and college, and perhaps that’s what we should lobby for. Or take the Millenium Trail west, and cut through the Senior Center.

By: Brad Rourke

Brad Rourke — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:20:02 +0000

As I understand it, the leasing company is happy with how it is going overall.I figure it is even more in THEIR interest than the community’s that the spaces be leased with good, long-term tenants. In other words, their interests align with community’s on that subject so there isn’t a reason to doubt their word.I think the grocery store will help a LOT. With that and CVS, most any sundry can be had.(For instance, I have heard complaints that hardware and underwear are not available in town ctr . . . but there they are, admittedly in small ways, in CVS. I just bought some t-shirts, as a matter of fact!)